Hints from HR - Employee Engagement

We're back with another episode of Hints from HR with Nicolle Brennan Gaffney-Block and Becca Ramati as we welcome back Jen Piccotti with Swift Bunny! Today we're talking about employee engagement and how companies do a better job of keeping their people happy, growing and motivated!

Transcript

Nicolle Block: My name is Nicole Block. I am your host for Hints from HR. With me, as always, is Ms. Becca Ramati, Vice President TAAEF. Hello, Ms. Becca.

Becca Ramati: Hello.

Nicolle Block: I want to welcome back another guest. You probably remember seeing her from a previous episode, miss Jen Piccotti. She is with Swift Bunny and she is our Chief Learning Officer. She always has great feedback for us just as we talk about engagement and motivation and just all of those leadership attributes that we're always trying to fine tune here in this industry and beyond. So, Jen, thanks for joining us. And can you remind the audience what you do for Swift Bunny?

Jen Piccotti: Yeah, absolutely. I'm so excited to be back. This is such a great opportunity and a great venue for information that people really want and need right now. But I am a Chief Learning Officer with Swift Bunny, so a lot of what I do is provide coaching and executive insights for property management companies and their leadership teams who are trying to figure out what's important to my employees, how can we best support them, how can we help them be most productive in their work? So I do a lot of that with a lot of executive teams, and then I also get to go around and speak at a variety of conferences and share all of the data that we are constantly gathering. I think at any given time, we've got data from over 8000 employees within our industry. So there's great insights. There's a lot of things that remain the same over time, and there's a lot of things that we see pop up as hotspots. Those are some of the things I'm excited to share with you all today of what we're seeing in the industry right now.

Becca Ramati: Correct me if I'm wrong, but, Jen, I believe you are the first two time guest in Hints from HR history.

Nicolle Block: I know.

Jen Piccotti: Thank you.

Nicolle Block: There'll be an award. Hold on, let me present it to you. I don't know where you are in my tri-screen. Yeah. But again, the day that you have is so valid. And one of the things that we appreciate about Swift money and I want to make sure the audience caught that, is this is industry specific to multifamily. We as operators, suppliers, job seekers, we've all taken different types of engagement surveys through companies that survey pretty much everyone. But what I love about Swift Bunny is that you really lean into our industry. And so I think that the information, like you said, is really poignant because it's what our team members are saying. And so I think you're giving us the answers to the test in so many ways. But I want to jump into the 2022 employment engagement survey that you guys have had released, and I want you to give a couple of the highlights. Some things, like you said, weren't a surprise. Some of the things might be. Let's start that conversation and remind the teams that are out there listening what we'll be discussing today based off of that survey.

Jen Piccotti: Yeah, so this is based on the 2022 Employee Engagement Risk report. So we really wanted to find out for this year, 2022, what are the things that are going to have the greatest negative impact on employees? What are the things that could potentially cause them to leave, whether it's leave your own company or whether it's leave the industry completely. Sure. We wanted to identify those things because based on a leadership poll of executives at the beginning of the year, we asked them, what are your greatest concerns for the upcoming year of 2022? And they said staff retention and staff recruitment. It wasn't operational budget, it wasn't vacancy loss, which we've seen very commonly over the past year. It was all about people. And so we wanted to help figure out what are the things that we can focus on now. We have all heard about compensation. Compensation has been a big challenge. And so that's kind of the big elephant in the room of what do we do about compensation. So we'll touch on that a little bit.

Nicolle Block: So before she jumps back on. We did talk about compensation. And I know that being that kind of elephant in the room. One of the things that we were discussing I know. Becca. Is that especially on the maintenance side of the house. That this has been a conversation as an industry that we have been talking about for years as far as trying to figure out how to catch up with whether it be the value monetarily or even like. The respect for what their position brings to our industry. But I think that those are some of the challenges we've been talking about for quite some time. I know the maintenance council you'd mentioned, I think, was the very first call that we had, and I don't know, was that last year?

Becca Ramati: It was last February, and we got these high level maintenance folks together to talk about where are they finding people and what kind of skills do they need? And really, the conversation ended up all being about value and the lack of value that they even as high level maintenance employees feel. And so I think that's something the industry really has to think about, whether it's compensation as a way to show value or how they're treated or how different things like that. So it's definitely a conversation yet to be had in a real meaningful way.

Nicolle Block: And ramping it up. And many of the topics that we've talked about on our podcast are just really planting seeds for the job seeker, for the operator, and for the supplier to work on every day. These are not ones and done. You can't say, oh, I was a good leader today, I'm good for the week, right? You have to be a good leader every day, and you have to make sure that you're focusing on your team's growth and development and making sure they feel valued every day. And that's the only way we can really build that value, for lack of a better term, right toward our associates feel that they know why they're there. They feel like they make a difference, they feel that they are empowered. All of those things, growth and development. Some of the topics, I know that Jen, who's probably frantically trying to get on right now, is ready to discuss. But I think that for our executives to say we're focused on retention and recruitment that's really gosh a year or two after you and I were talking about it as well, making sure that that's a focus.

Becca Ramati: Yeah, and I think what's really interesting about this conversation is that compensation is such an issue, but at the same time, there are things that can be done to show value, to engage and help our people feel like they want to stay that don't necessarily have to do with compensation. And those are meaningful things as well.

Nicolle Block: I think, that we also discuss. I know with our teams, we talk about what is controllable right now and what is not. And some things are not in our direct control. Some things, again, it's a seed you plant for tomorrow. But what can we control right now and how we are approaching our team and how, again, we show up every day to support their mission, their values, their vision, and make sure that aligns with your companies. Again, whether you're a supplier or an operator or even like a job seeker, kind of going through and looking at what you are wanting to join as far as a company or an industry, all of those things are really important, but we have to be living that every single day. So I'm going to start going to some of the topics I know Jen wanted to cover and I'm here.

Jen Piccotti: Okay, technology is awesome, when it works, right?

Nicolle Block: We just kind of covered the value of maintenance teams, Jen. Some of the compensation kind of overview that we talked about as far as what's controllable. Definitely building value. And then also kind of acknowledging that that's something to consider as an industry. But then also talking about the three or four other topics I know that we're going to roll into that you found in your survey that we want to kind of dig a little deeper into. But I want to ensure we didn't miss anything from your overview. So I don't know if you wanted to add to that before we jump in.

Jen Piccotti: Yeah, hearing some bits and pieces of what we were saying, it really is all about value. It really is all about people feeling respected, especially our maintenance team members. You may have mentioned this, but one of the biggest things we hear is, I've been here, I stuck through all the coveted stuff. I know this property inside and out and now you've brought in this brand new green maintenance person and you're paying them the same or even more than me and that feels like a slap in the face. And even if everything else is fantastic, even if every part of their job is wonderful, that one thing. It really cuts deep. Just that lack of respect, that perception of the lack of respect. So that's something that companies can just be cognizant of when they are bringing on new employees.

Nicolle Block: Yeah, and markets are changing. Sometimes whenever I'm talking to some of the managers in my group, we're talking about what's going on and we're recruiting and trying to hire, markets change. We do the same thing with our rent, if you want to think about it that way. If the rents are going up, they're kind of going up for everybody. So you have to take a look at the people that are living with you, right. And then you take a look at the people that are going to be living with you. And I think that as companies were a little behind in this industry, behind the eight ball, if you will, of really doing that with salaries as much. I think that's changing. Like I said, Beck and I thought we'd be talking about this for two years. So I'm glad, we're kind of glad everybody else is with us.

Becca Ramati: I was going to say, Nicole, your reference of looking at rents changing and needing to increase or adjust the market, there have been numerous occasions when we've referenced the resident facing side of things as a way of looking at what we should be doing internally. So onboarding for employees, well, what are you doing for when your new resident comes in? Look at those types of things. And this is just another example of that. So that sort of struck me.

Nicolle Block: Yeah, it's a blind spot. And that's why we really do try and hear in this podcast. We need to put it in terms of our operators and suppliers are going to understand, right. So we're trying to make sure sometimes it's just as simple when we make it too difficult. And I know that not everyone listening to this podcast makes all the decisions in their company, but you guys do have a voice. And I do think that the more we do talk about those types of things, hopefully the more impact we're going to have. But kind of going back to Jen's overview and kind of steering it back to that engagement risk report and then some of the things that you found, Jen, I wanted to kind of talk about three areas and I'm going to review them really quickly and then we'll kind of go back into them step by step. But the three biggest reasons why people are leaving beyond compensation that you found and then of course, feel free to correct me if I'm missing this, but professional development, internal communication and an overall workload. So those three things are items that you identified as why people are making the choice to leave. Again, beyond compensation. Is there anything else that you would add to that before we dig in?

Jen Piccotti: No, these really are the leading things. And I will say when it comes to professional development and career development, that has been at the top of the list for a while, so it's staying there. The other two we're seeing more of than we ever have before. And I think one thing that really strikes me when it comes to professional development is right now we are so strapped for people, we have so many shortages that we really do need every single employee in the exact role that they're currently in. So it's really difficult for supervisors or management team members to say, oh yeah, let's move someone, let's progress someone. They might talk about bench strength, but when it comes to actually moving someone into a new role, it feels very scary because there's not necessarily someone to backfill whatever open space that's going to create. But the thing is, this is a desire that many employees have. And by the way, there are a lot of employees who love doing exactly what they're doing right now. And they want to be that. Whatever it is, they want to be the best, whatever it is they are, they don't have any desire to be a manager or to move to a different department. And so we have to be aware of those people. But that doesn't mean they don't want to develop. They want to become the subject matter expert of that role. They want to understand the new technologies. They want to understand that. But when we're talking about people who are interested in growth and moving into another role or another title, we can't just pretend like that doesn't exist. We can't pretend that by not talking about it that it's just going to go away. Because what will happen and what is happening and what has happened is if we're not going to have a conversation and if I feel that there is no place for me to go here, then I'm going to go somewhere else where there is room. So you're not solving a problem by not talking about it well, and I.

Nicolle Block: Think that a couple of things on growth and development, as you guys know, it's like one of my biggest passions probably. But I would say that if you think about a lot of times, people have a mix up vision. And so when I'm growing and developing people, I mean, actively trying and of course pouring into the ones that want it. And again, you're right, some people are like, hey, I'm great where I'm at. I'm like, perfect, then you're going to be the best XYZ while you're there and I want you to still grow in place. But here's what my teams, we don't really have a philosophy on like when they'll say, what if we grow them and they leave? Yeah, but what if we don't and they stay? So we are really hamstring our workforce because we're not pouring into them and then maybe they stay and then mediocre is as good as you're going to get. Whereas if you do take the time, or I even say make the time, because we all have to make time for what's important and figure out what they want to grow in. Growing in place is a term that we use all the time because you can't always climb that ladder, proverbially, but are you going to be ready when the rung is presented to you? And I think that we really try to focus on that with our teams and if you don't, they'll know that. Again, as leaders, that's our responsibility and someone got us here, right? We didn't get here on our own. So I think that we have to really continue to pay that forward with our teams and ensure that they're doing the same. But yeah. But I think the growth and development piece. They will go if they feel like they're not going anywhere. But I also think explaining what growth looks like to them and making sure you agree. I think that's where and that kind of goes into the second bullet point we're going to talk to here in a little bit is that growth feels and looks different to everyone as far as what they want. And as leaders, we have to be able to pivot and be able to give what they need so that they feel like they're not stagnant. I mean, I think coming out of Covet, everyone was just holding on for their lives, they're holding on for their jobs, they're hoping not to get laid off and we made lots of life decisions and we're going to reevaluated everyone's state of affairs and I think now people are like, okay, again, where am I valued? Absolutely. I think that yeah, you're right on with that one. I totally agree and it has always been number one. Gosh, I think I've been seeing this for eight or ten years. So if you haven't gotten on that bet and wagon yet, you better get on quick because this left the station.

Jen Piccotti: Yeah. And there's a couple you talk about controllable and there's a couple of things that you can control. It doesn't mean you're just like, everyone gets a trophy, everyone gets a new title. That's not what we're talking about. But number one, one of the easiest things a company can do every month is to send out to every employee, every single one, make sure everyone knows about all the current open positions. Because one thing that we're good at as an industry is saying, hey, do you know anyone who's interested in X? What we don't do is anyone interested in this opening? It's a subtle thing, but it's different and most not much, but I would say more than a third of all multifamily employees say that they do not feel that their company notifies all the employees of all open positions. Now, just because you notify that there's an opening, it doesn't guarantee that you're going to choose an internal candidate. And I think that's something that I've heard from managers. Now, they'll think that we're just going to hire from within. I was like, well, no, I think people are wiser.

Becca Ramati: Yes, but I love that it plants a seed. Somebody might not be thinking about what their next step might be, but it gives them an opportunity to think, oh, maybe I'm good for this role, or maybe this is something I could consider. And by showing them and making it accessible, it's just even information that can be so helpful.

Nicolle Block: And that's what I was just thinking, maybe making an active stance. Because think about all of that. We've given suggestions on what does your website say about your culture, what does it say about your diversity or equity or inclusion? And a lot of times they think, oh, it's posted. But is it a passive stance that you're taking? I'm sure your internal postings are on your website, ladies and gentlemen, that are out there, but are you actively sending a link out to all of your people, like you said, making an active role? I also say I've been surprised in approaching some candidates, saying, hey, I saw that this was open. And they're like, oh, well, sometimes they think we're going to approach them because they're like, oh, if she or he thinks I'm maybe a candidate, they'll let me know. So you have to also know your base of your internal customer and what they're thinking and feeling, and don't wait for them to apply. If you really think you've got someone that's got some opportunity, again, it's a two way street.

Jen Piccotti: So, yeah, it is a two way street. And I think educating another topic that comes up is that a good portion? I think one in five multifamily employees, they say they don't have a clear understanding of their career path. I think there's this misconception that there are these very clear XYZ, follow the breadcrumb trail to the next role. That's not always the case. Everyone's career path looks wildly different from each other. And so just by first of all, if you're notifying people, here are the openings that can spark some really great conversations with employees and their supervisors saying, hey, I was kind of interested in that. How would I prepare? How do I get ready to apply for something like that? But the other thing is supervisors taking an active role in telling their team, hey, if any of you are ever interested in anything, don't assume that someone is going to come and tap you on the shoulder and be like, you.

Jen Piccotti: You need to come to me and say, hey, I'm interested. Raise your hand or ask questions about it because otherwise I can't read your mind if you're even interested. And sometimes, especially right now, we're also strapped that you may just not have time to go up to the person and be like, hey, I think that you could apply for this.

Nicolle Block: All the sense in the world. And again, why it's been number one for so long. I want to give a little bit of time to the two newer ones on the list. I think that all of us have been beating the drum for professional growth and development for ten years and we're still barely scratching the surface. We better start beating these drums pretty quick. Yes. So let's talk a little bit about internal communication. Can you give us a quick highlight, Jen, of what they were specifically gauging or giving feedback on when they mentioned internal communication?

Jen Piccotti: Yes. And there's two facets of this. There's micro communication, what I'm calling it, micro communication and macro communication and micro being if I have an issue, I have a question, I have a need, and I send an email to an internal team member, whether it's to accounting or to my regional or whoever it might be, I'm not getting a response quickly. Now, on site, I know that the general rule is if a resident emails or calls, we're supposed to get back to them within 24 hours or same day. That's the expectation that's typically set for onsite team members with residents. And yet internally within companies, we don't have the same standard. And so a manager can be sending an email to accounting and they wait two or three days and then they leave a voicemail and they wait another day and they're not getting the information they need. And one of the biggest challenges they're having right now are authorizations. We saw a lot of companies, meaning well over the course of the pandemic, centralized a lot of things and with the goal of we want to take things off the manager's plate, the assistant manager's plate, we want to centralize these things so you don't have to worry about them. Now, that concept and that thought process is fantastic. The reality, though, in many cases is that some of the things that they used to be able to do very quickly, like get rid of a late fee or whatever it might be, or go and make a purchase at Home Depot because they need a rent, I don't know. Now they've got to go. Instead of being able to internally approve those things or make those things happen, they now must rely on a centralized person or department. It takes more time, and the end result is that the resident gets frustrated with that. Onsite team member, why aren't you helping me? Why can't you fix this? And the manager assistant or the leasing team members, like, I'm waiting for the authorization, for sure.

Nicolle Block: I can see the authorization piece and red tape is just the devil. I totally support that. Again, your intentions are good, but execution is poor, so I definitely am not surprised to see that. So that's on the microphone, that's on.

Jen Piccotti: The micro version, we see that people are really hungry to hear from leadership. And the companies that have been most successful, especially through the course of the Pandemic as far as engagement and people understanding what's going on are those who had regularly scheduled all hands meetings and whether it was once a month or every couple of weeks, and in some cases every week, where leadership would do like a Zoom call with everyone, everyone was invited. And it wasn't necessarily a long meeting, it could be 15 to 30 minutes, but it was a place for everyone to have access to hearing what's going on, what's the plan, how are we doing this process this week? What new developments are coming on board, those types of things where everyone felt in the loop. So if there was a major change in policy process, et cetera, everyone could hear the same thing at the same time. Because what tends to happen is we filter down information. The leadership tells regionals, who tell their property managers, who tell their teams, and we rely on that for a lot of different things. But what happens is it becomes the ultimate game of telephone. And whether intentional or not, if we are asked to pass along a message, what we tend to do is cherry pick the things that we think are most important or most relevant or things that are most important to us, and that's the information that gets transferred. And it's not necessarily the full picture. And especially for our onsite maintenance teams and leasing team members, they're really eager to know what's going on. And also having access to leadership and seeing them and hearing them talk, that's a part of being exposed to the company culture. That's something where they get to understand the personality and the heart of the company that they're working for, and that's something that resonates with everyone. So creating those all hands opportunities on a regular basis, not once a year, I'm talking monthly, it really brings people together. It helps people feel like an insider, but they're important enough, they're valued enough to hear the same information as everyone else at the same time. So those two things have huge impact on employee engagement and just feeling. If we talk about value, that's huge when it comes to value.

Nicolle Block: Yeah, and I think the vehicle is really important too. I think with the advent of Zoom, right, as far as Pandemic, is that we do, as leaders, need to make ourselves more accessible. I definitely do on a weekly basis with my groups and then also individually as well. So it's just hitting that prong towards the growth and development and that internal communication, because we want to make sure everyone does hear that same message. So I think that super valid. And also, as leaders, I feel like I have a better pulse of what's going on in my world, because, again, it's a two way street. Whenever I have everybody, they can just say, hey, did you know that so and so was building over here? I'm like, no, I didn't. All right, so let me go take a look at that. Right.

Becca Ramati: And Jen, I would imagine that if companies did a good job of that during COVID, and then all of a sudden the communication stops because there's less of a perceived need, that's frustrating as well. It can cause a lot of issues as well. So I guess the message is that this isn't just a covert thing. This should be all the time. Again, not one and done, like Nicole said. But I can just imagine how frustrating that is. Combined with our next topic of workload, those things together could just totally drive somebody out.

Nicolle Block: Yeah, and I think, too, with workload, again, another topic we've talked about is that I think that we've had to do more with less for 2000 and 22,021. And I think in a lot of times, a lot of ways, that became the new normal. And we're really not unraveling that. So I'm not surprised that workload is also coming up on that. So we have like three or four minutes left in our time together, Jen. But I wanted to see kind of what your high level and kind of the explanation like you did before, if you can kind of share what was specifically given as far as feedback around workload.

Jen Piccotti: Oh, you know, staffing shortages that's causing more work for more people or for less people. And so, yes, not more people. We want more people.

Nicolle Block: We need more people.

Jen Piccotti: We need more people. But we really have this opportunity to really lean into technology in a way that we haven't before. And we saw it work during COVID. And it's so funny, so many companies, now that the restrictions are being lifted, it's like, okay, let's go totally back to, quote unquote, normal. And it's like, hey, we learned something here. Let's embrace that. People are willing to engage with chatbots, with leasing, and that keeps them in the sales funnel. Let's hold on to those things. There are more options for virtual and self guided tours. Let's lean into that. Let's make that available and relieve some of the burden off of the in person leasing tours. Because people like it. They actually have higher closing rates in many cases for people who do self guided tours. On the maintenance side of things, there are cool diagnostic tools. Like, Meso is one company that has come out where a resident can take a video of whatever the issue is and the system somehow says, okay, this appears to be the problem. Here are the potential tools and parts you may need, and let's schedule the tech for this. Time frame and it cuts back and cuts down on the diagnostic time. And there are some companies who are testing that out and finding some great results. We have another company who's shifting their work hours instead for maintenance. So instead of being like eight to five or seven to four or whatever it might be, they're doing noon to 09:00 P.m., which is essentially reducing all on call stuff.

Nicolle Block: We definitely do that. And that's been a game changer, huge game changer.

Jen Piccotti: So people leaders just have to be willing to look at what things worked during the pandemic. And the residents, they're more willing to be flexible, they're more willing to like if the office is closed one day a week, they're okay with that, they're fine with that. So there's these types of things where we need to look at how do we take care of our teams. Communicate well to the residents of what's going on. And find the technology that's actually going to reduce the busy work of our team members and let them bring the value. Add the personal touches where needed. Returning phone calls and emails on leads that might not be the best use of time. If chat bots can answer some of those questions, for example, to wrap all.

Nicolle Block: This up, it's just the same things we're discussing is like, is it? Listen to this podcast, these are some ideas. Go back to your company. What are you doing? What can you do? And I think we can always do more than we think we can. And I think that having this data, this raw data, which I love about Swift Bunny, and again, this is industry specific, guys like our audience is telling us what they want and what they need. And so we have the answers to the test. It's up to us to circle back. I'm again not surprised about the professional growth and development, but that internal communication and workload, I think they go hand in hand and I think those are things that are topics for the future and will continue to be. Because again, compensation still kind of plays into that. We're working through these staffing shortages which directly impacts workload, right? So I think that all of these are interconnected. And whether, again, you're a job seeker looking to jump in with us here in the crazy multifamily world, an operator or a supplier, I think these are all things that we've been talking about. And again, we will continue to talk about so that we can ensure that you're building the best teams that have the best culture and the best really overall performance. Because if you focus on your people and that's where your performance lies. So thank you again, Jen, I know that we had some technical difficulty and thank you so much. We really appreciate what you do for industry and what your company does. And it's always great topics that we can think on till we can get better. So I appreciate your time.

Jen Piccotti: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Nicolle Block: Of course. And, Becca, thank you, as usual. Thank you. All right. Bye, guys.